Upcoming CloudWarden Webinar: GUARD Your Cloud From Threats 24/7 with Horangi's All-New Cloud SOC
logo

EN

Products +

Services +

Customers +

Partners +

Resources +

Top 5 Qualities For Succeeding In Tomorrow's Cybersecurity Industry

Surprise, surprise! A passion for cybersecurity is not even on the list of top 5 qualities for success in tomorrow's cybersecurity industry. Find out what employers are actually looking for today from Emil Tan, COO at Red Alpha and Founder of Infosec In The City.

Emil Tan is, by his own admission, a second-generation cybersecurity professional, and is today helping to train the third generation. Although the cybersecurity industry is relatively young with only about 30 years of history, it has witnessed three generations of professionals. Podcast host Mark Fuentes and Emil look at how the first two generations had to contend with a lack of books and resources versus the abundance of opportunities for the new generation today.

While there are abundant opportunities, tomorrow's cybersecurity industry also demands that aspiring cybersecurity professionals possess different qualities in order to succeed. Find out what Emil thinks these qualities are.

Tune in to this episode of Ask A CISO to hear:

  • The three different generations of cybersecurity professionals and the challenges facing each cohort
  • Emil's observations about the new versus previous generations of cybersecurity professionals
  • How previous generations of cybersecurity professionals overcame the lack of resources and challenges of being pioneers of a new industry
  • Advice for aspiring cybersecurity professionals - how they can go above and beyond just their cybersecurity curriculum
  • Hands-on experience versus certifications: what's more important?
  • Emil's 5 crucial qualities for success for aspiring cybersecurity professionals
  • Who are Red Alpha and what they do

About The Guest: Emil Tan

Emil Tan is the Chief Operating Officer (COO) at Red Alpha Cybersecurity, a cybersecurity talent development company He has been in the industry for more than a decade, with experience in many cybersecurity trades including R&D, cybersecurity operations, governance, policy and regulations, and consultancy.

Emil is an active contributor to the cybersecurity ecosystem in Singapore and plays an active role in catalyzing cybersecurity conversations and thought leadership, both locally and internationally.

He is also the founder of Division Zero (Div0), Singapore’s largest techno-centric cybersecurity community group, and Infosec In the City (SINCON), Singapore’s international techno-centric cybersecurity conference. In addition, Emil is a key Council member of the Global Cybersecurity Camp (GCC )and chairs Cyber Youth Singapore (CYS), a local charity youth organization.

In 2018, Emil was awarded the inaugural Cybersecurity Awards (Professional Category) by the Cyber Security Agency of Singapore (CSA) in recognition of his contributions.

About The Host: Paul Hadjy

Paul Hadjy is co-founder and CEO of Horangi Cyber Security. 

Paul leads a team of cybersecurity specialists who create software to solve challenging cybersecurity problems. Horangi brings world-class solutions to provide clients in the Asian market with the right, actionable data to make critical cybersecurity decisions.

Prior to Horangi, Paul worked at Palantir Technologies, where he was instrumental in expanding Palantir’s footprint in the Asia Pacific. 

He worked across Singapore, Korea, and New Zealand to build Palantir's business in both the commercial and government space and grow its regional teams. 

He has over a decade of experience and expertise in Anti-Money Laundering, Insider Threats, Cyber Security, Government, and Commercial Banking. 

Transcript

Mark

Hello again! This is the Ask A CISO podcast, helping you through the treacherous waters of cyberspace, getting your ship where it needs to go. I am Mark Fuentes. I'm here to host you today, standing in for the boss man Paul Hadjy, and today I have a really cool guest with me.

Really well known in a lot of the cybersecurity and Information Security circles here in Singapore. We have Emil Tan. Just a quick blurb about Emil -- he started out in high-impact postings such as, in orgs such as Singapore's Defense Science National Laboratories and the Ministry of Defense. He's, like I said, highly active in our, a lot of our interest groups around here, community and communities such as InfoSec in the City, and currently serving as Chief Operating Officer of cybersecurity development company Red Alpha.

Welcome, welcome, Emil. How are you?

Emil

It's good. Very happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me, Mark.

Mark

Yeah, yeah, really, we appreciate you coming on.

How's things going over there at Red Alpha. I'm sure you guys are keeping busy.

Emil

Yeah, We are starting our third cohort of trainees in just two weeks, and our second cohort more than halfway through, and we are getting them placed in jobs as we speak.

Mark

That's awesome. That's fantastic. I'm so happy to see you guys are really starting to launch over there. Yeah, and it brings us into like what I'd like to talk about today.

Today, I'd like to talk about the new breed, the next generation of cyber professionals, right, and so with that, I'd like to just start off by asking you about, maybe you know, since you're so in touch you know with the work that you do and you're in the community a lot, you see a lot of the younger folks coming into our field, what, do you have any interesting observations maybe what their strengths and weaknesses are compared to the past generations? Maybe, you know, things that they have that maybe we don't have, we didn't have starting our careers a while ago?

Emil

Mark, this is a very very interesting question and before we talk about a new generation, I kind of have to go a little bit back into the history, right? So ...

Mark

Yeah.

Emil

although we are using a big word like generation, right, but cybersecurity is a very new field, right, it's a very new industry to be exact. The discipline has been around for a long time, probably since the 70s, 80s, but as the industry cybersecurity has been around for just about 30 years, to be honest.

Mark

That's right.

Emil

So from my observation, very generally speaking if I may, although the industry is young, right, there are about already three different generations of cybersecurity professionals that I've seen, right. The first generation birthed out of necessity probably in the 90s and early 2000s, right. So back then IT infrastructure, systems, services, and so on, they are all starting to get attacked more often, right.

So organizations like governments, the military, or big banks, pharmaceutical companies, and so on, they know they need to step up and start to protect all the systems. So IT personnel who understands hacking, right, and enjoy working in this wild west universe, they were thrown to take up Information Security roles.

Mark

Yep, that's right.

Emil

So that comes first gen. And then comes the second generation which I proudly belong to, started in around the mid-2000s, right, so where we are

Mark

Yeah, same.

Emil

really cybersecurity-trained from the get-go by gathering experience from the past from the first generation

Mark

Yeah.

Emil

of security folks, right, when we try to figure out what cybersecurity really means, right, although we say that we know cybersecurity, we study cybersecurity, but we still really don't know what it means yet, right, so that's a lot more experimenting ...

Mark

I mean when we started, they didn't even call it cyber at all right?

Emil

Yeah, it's, if you notice I say Information Security earlier.

Mark

That's right, that's right. A 100 percent.

Emil

Yeah, cyber was starting to get into place. So we were trying to figure out, right?

We do a lot of experimenting. We do a lot of tinkering, all sorts of technology. We hustle through or even call it a patchwork of experiences and know-how. So we just grab whatever that's out there. We compete in CTF. We attend conferences. We participate in hackathons. We pretty much need to hustle through a global, you know, we had to hustle globally, right, looking for resources everywhere and see where we can salvage stuff from, and at the end of the day, you know, just hoping that we get a job with a cool title that has cyber in it. And shortly after then comes the main question that we are talking about which is the third generation. When it started sometime in the mid-2000s, or sorry, sometimes 2010s, right?

Which goes back to your main question. So in this generation, cybersecurity is a lot more established, job functions are a bit more defined, right? People getting into cybersecurity know what's what in the industry. When you mention things like Red Team, Blue Team, Pen-Test, Incident Response, Forensics, SOC, GRC, people know what you're talking about. In the first two generations, not really, right?

So, and there are pathways, right, for this generation there are pathways, there are some form of structured ways to get into it, right? There are also abundance of opportunities, right? This generation of professionals actually, you know it's an envy, right, they have a choice of their life in terms of mentorship, choosing what CTF have to participate in, what conferences to attend.

There are also so many structured resources, they're available online, and they can, you know, they have choices to get them where they want to go, right. So these new generations, the good thing is they have a early start. They have an early and strong start into the professional side of the industry, but sometimes I quite often, I can't help but to wonder how much they are a hacker, right? Not black hat, right, but as hacker as a defender, right? How much a depth, creative capacity, and grit that they have to sustain and dig into when it matters, right?

That is beyond professionals, the things that they learn about professional tools and procedures that they were taught, right? So because there are just so many opportunities out there, they may not be hitting the wall every now and again like us, falling down every now and again like us as well, right? So although I'm really generalizing here of course, right, but I know many third-generation professionals who are, who at their very core are still true hackers and professional defenders at the same time.

So regardless, this third generation professionals, at the end of the day, is still very very important to the industry because we need people, we need professionals to fill up, to get into roles that are urgently in demand to defend our current state of a very very unsecured cyberspace.

Mark

That's you know, that's a great, that's a great thing you mentioned just there. I, you know, I've felt it but I've never heard it vocalized in that way, right. You know, you know, I work with, you know, we, I work with a lot of pen-testers as well and I make that distinction between pen-testers and hackers, and a lot of younger people who are just coming in, maybe they're just coming out of the uni, or maybe they're on their first or second job, I'll say, yeah, you know this guy's a great pen-tester or this guy's a great pen-tester.

This guy's a hacker, and then they go, what do you mean, like what's the difference? Aren't pen-testers hackers? I'm like well, no, like you said, in our generation and the generation before, we didn't have that luxury of having, being able to do it by the book, because there was no book, right?

We had to figure out how to do it on our own, so there was no by-the-book for us, and so we value that creativity that out-of-the-box thinking, that you know, because, you know, it's easier to do it by the book because you just keep practicing and it's, it goes into the same methodology over and over again. So, yeah, I think there's strengths to both sides, right? Strengths to having that structure that you mentioned. Sometimes I'm a little bit jealous of this new generation that they do have that structure, but I think you're right that, you know, there is a little piece of that ingenuity, that innovation, that might be getting lost because I guess they don't teach classes in ingenuity and innovation. right?

What do you think we can do to foster that? Is that a skill or is that a trait, or are there things that we can do to foster that kind of out-of-the-box thinking in this new generation?

Emil

So regarding all these structure programs, right? I'm actually, I belong to the second-gen, I can say, right, but I mean the pioneer generation of such programs in the mid-2000s before it transit on to the new generation that I just described, so I was actually the first batch of cybersecurity graduates from Singapore Polytechnic, the Diploma in Infocomm Security Management.

Again, Infocomm Security.

So but the curriculum and culture is a lot, it's a lot different as compared to now, right. Again, what I'm gonna going say next is generalizing again. Of course all universities, polytechnics, or even ITEs here in Singapore have their own strengths and weaknesses, but to answer this question holistically, right? So this, all these programs, all this structure have their merits for sure, right? They provide a good structure in introducing cybersecurity as an industry, as a profession, and a discipline, right?

They provide a good foundation for people who want to get into cybersecurity but these bricks and mortar of this structure is not enough. The important part of becoming a professional at the end of the day who really, really understand cybersecurity is the character and identity development surrounding this structure.

Students need to ride on top of the program structure, they to explore, they need to explore beyond it. So, if not, the professionals or "professionals", if they don't do that, the people we are producing are just going to be people who can, are just ticking checkboxes, going through chapters after chapters passing, just about passing exams, passing tests, and that also means the skill set is probably outdated five, 10 years ago, that in order to translate into books as you mentioned, and so in order to do more, students need to ride on the curriculum to do more, they need to explore more, they need to experiment and experience more.

Go for internships, understand the industry, what is it like, what's the industry like, how do they translate their skill set? Work on projects not just school assignments but real projects. Work on open-source projects beyond the school curriculum. Learn how to work as a team. It's really important here in cybersecurity.

Compete in CTF. Get a mentor, learn from war stories and that's how we all learn. Students definitely have to continue to do that, If not, students cannot just purely depend on school curriculum. They need to be gumptious. They need to be resourceful in order to succeed in this industry.

Mark

Those are really great points. All of these things that you mentioned: going out and getting a mentor, getting into you know CTFs, and doing open-source projects and stuff like that.

One thing that it made me think was, and it's something that personally, a little bit, it missed me about the industry. All of those things that you mentioned, and they're great and they have great value to create well-rounded professionals. There's no search for that.

Emil

Yeah.

Mark

There's no cert or documentation for that.

What do you think about the, you know, skills, traits versus certs and credentials argument? What do you think is the balance between putting weight on certifications on a CV as opposed to maybe they list projects, accomplishments. What's the weight there? Is it 50-50? Is ...

What do you think?

Emil

I think it really depends on the context.

So what I usually tell people it's there are two, there are two things that they need to balance off or whether they are doing projects or whether they spend time on certifications. You need to know why are you doing that. Certifications to me, or what I usually tell my mentees, for example, and people in my community, is certification is about proving what you know, and that's the idea of the certifications, it's for you to get your first job. It's for you to win that contract, and says I know what I know. I know what I'm doing, therefore hire me. Be it for the organization or for the project.

But of course, the industry, for the certification industry, their trainings behind it, and people like structure. They like to know that eventually, it will get me to where I think I can prove what I know, and therefore people are going for their certifications.

But on the other hand, it's if you know all these things, even you can prove what you know, if you don't know how to apply it, you have not done projects before, you have no experience to show. It's not that impressive at all. It's not proven.

So I will usually, for, most of the time, I actually look at project more or actually will put like 75, over 80 percent what have you done? What's your contribution? Because that will look into many other attributes as well not just paper skills, or especially for Singaporeans. Singaporeans are exam-smart, so certification might not play that much weight because if you're good at your projects, you're doing all this research, you can deliver at work, it's not going to be hard getting a certification another day.

Mark

That's 100 percent agree. I'm on the same page.

You know at this, you know when you get to this stage in your career, it's really more, your job is less about proving what you know, it's more about executing. It's more about getting the job done, so I definitely agree with you. I think certs do have their place, but I would say, same as you, probably about 75 percent weight to what you've done as opposed to certifications. Yeah, definitely same page. But I'll bring it back, let me bring it back to something you actually, you touched on just a moment ago.

You were just talking about universities and you were one of the first cohorts that came out of new programs.

So now you know, like you said, probably universities are in the second iteration now of these programs, and they're spitting out these freshly-minted cyber professionals every semester. What are your thoughts on where these programs are now? what is the quality of the person that comes out on the other end? And maybe you know what may be lacking? What the strengths are, you know, thoughts on that?

Emil

I think I kind of very briefly covered that in the first question earlier, which is, you know, I see the main difference between the first-gen and the third-gen so even when second-gen we just started, there is a program that says that, right, these are some of the modules that we kind of have to go through.

We actually are in a journey together with the school, to be honest, so we

Mark

Yeah, both learning.

Emil

actually had a conversation with lecturers. We're like, what we are doing and we go to CTF and so on. The lecturers just, the professors, the lecturers pretty much looked at us and go like, go figure. I have told you there's a competition. It briefly works that way, I think, you guys can go figure it ourselves, and some of the lecturers kind of trained together with us.

So there's a lot of doing things together. I think everyone is trying to figure things out together with the school. And when it came to third generation, I think then all the new programs, the culture is slightly different where a lot more experience is being put in place, the industry getting more involved now.

In the past, industry might not be as involved. It's really about again us trying to figure things out together, whereas, in the new curriculum, industry wants to be more involved. They are bringing new research that they want, they think that it'll be great to get students being involved, and they want some of these students when they graduate to use their tools. So all the more they bring in the industry products in like, hey, you know, use my SIEM to teach some modules, so eventually when they go out to the industry, it's, they

Mark

It's kind of the de facto

Emil

kind of call some way.

Mark

Yeah, okay.

I actually didn't know that that was going on. That's interesting.

Emil

Yeah, yeah.

So I say it's really become more and more professional. It's become more professional. Pros and cons for sure. I mean, I see more people staying in the cybersecurity industry now because it's structured. People know where they're headed to and eventually, there are opportunities. There're internship opportunities. There are job roles out there waiting for them.

But sometimes, I mean, there is a passion that they want to do more but it's just that the vibe of hacker is just not really there, but I would say they are all very, there're many young professionals as compared to in the past whereas a lot of things is like a wild west. Oh, let's figure things out. Let's figure these things out together, but the retention, there's not a lot of people in, from my generation that I, that started together with me, I actually would say about only 20 percent left, stay in the industry.

Mark

I see.

So we're seeing less, you know, guys in hoodies, more guys in suits now. That's interesting. That's very interesting. So if you had to, if you had to pick five attributes or skills that were the top five most crucial to face the cybersecurity world of tomorrow, what would you say they were?

Emil

I love this question. If you have asked me this question like five years ago, without a doubt I will say passion. You need to have passion. Passion for the field. Passion for cybersecurity.

Now I won't be putting on any list. Surprise, surprise! But because for the last three years or so, I found passion to be such an empty word. I've met so many people in the field. All want to get into cyber security and they will claim that, oh, I have passion for the field, but when I ask them, they can't elaborate further. They can't demonstrate or explain their passion for cybersecurity to me when I ask them like, so what makes you passionate about it?

And for those who can, really you know, for those who can articulate this passion, it's actually, if you look closer, it's actually other underlying attributes that we are really looking out for. The first thing I look out for is playfulness - knowing how to play.

This attribute was kind of imparted to me by my supervisor when I was working in the Defense Science organization. So rather, so for him, rather than telling me to work on this, to work on that, he always tells me, hey, go and play. Play with this tool, play with that method, explore and experiment, just play with it. So and that has been how I've been approaching a lot of things since, seeing everything like, as a fun activity, making me eager to explore, understand, and get down to the underlying science of things, and that's very important in cybersecurity when the breadth of things is endless, and there's just so many things out there that you'll never ever be an expert in everything.

So when we're playful, the world's your oyster. Your thirst for knowledge and your thirst for understanding is going to be there.

Second attribute: excellence. So in cybersecurity, it's not about how many features you know about a tool. It's not about knowing fancy tricks, and it goes back to what we said earlier. It's not about collecting certs. Instead, what I look out in people who are, are people who strive for excellence in things they do. They really understand the underlying method or the underlying matter at hand. They strive for the level of being able to tap into their depth and breadth of their knowledge in order to fulfill their mission and, you know, fulfill their mission, fulfill their task effectively and efficiently.

And not just breezing through chapters after chapters, papers after papers and claim that, oh, I've read a lot but to be honest with you, when things ... when moments that it actually matters that they don't know how to tap into their ...

Mark

How to apply any of that stuff, right?

Emil

Yeah.

I'll combine the third and fourth attributes. I will say grit and gumption. I kind of touch on them earlier that you need to be able to ... yourself and never rest on your laurels.

Nark, we talk about this a lot. I always love your analogy about always thinking like there are a bunch of people chasing after you.

Mark

Yeah, yeah.

Emil

Right, so you need to be, you need to have the grit. You need to be gumptious in order to survive in ...

Mark

You really have to. You definitely have to.

Emil

The last attribute: last but not least, success. How do you bring success to people around you? This is important. A lot of things I do. Success, how do you find success for yourself? Success for your peers or your community? Success for your organization, and overall, to the cyber world or the world.

Mark

All right, you know, actually, those, if I had my list, my list is quite similar to yours, I think they're just synonyms of yours. All of my ...

So yeah, you said, the first one you said was a willingness to play, so playfulness I totally agree. That second one was ... what was the second one again?

Emil

Excellence.

Mark

The second one was, yeah, so for me that's taking pride in your work. I would say taking pride in your work is another one, and like you said, you know, you said gumption for the third and fourth but essentially, you know, I said number three would be you signed up for cybersecurity, you signed up to take a bachelor's degree every four years so continuous improvement, and just being relentless in your move, moving forward and upward because, like you said, someone's chasing you.

There's a drove of people coming out of those universities that are after our jobs and then definitely for that last one. What was the last one you said again?

Emil

Success.

Mark

Success, right? And for me it's bringing value, creating value for those around you, for yourself, for your organization, so I think just synonyms of yours, so definitely the same. Definitely agree. Super, super agree with that but, you know, let's talk a little bit about what you're doing over at Red Alpha. Tell us a little bit about Red Alpha, what you guys do, what you guys are about, and the problems that you guys are looking to solve, and how you guys do it?

Emil

I'd love to!

Red Alpha, we are a, I mean as you described and introduced earlier, we are a talent development company. So in a nutshell we kind of sit in between a training institute and recruitment agency, so we're kind of like a hybrid of both but at the same time, we are neither. I know it's getting confusing, but let me explain.

Mark

A little bit, a little bit, but I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued.

Emil

So we are not just a training institute because although we provide training, we do not sell training. We put the money where our mouth is by showing the industry that our training works. So what we do is we recruit people with high aptitude and people with the talent to excel in cybersecurity. We train them up for free. They even get an allowance during the training period and then

Mark

Wow!

Emil

we place them with our partners, people who need cybersecurity talents. So our partners will only pay us for the training that we have provided to these trainees when they recruit them, so no money or transaction is being involved until we have proven that we have trained the trainees well and now the company wants them to be part of the team.

We are not just a recruitment agency because we don't just place existing professionals. We don't just place people from the left pocket to the right. We, however, what we do is we introduce new talented cybersecurity professionals trained by us into the industry, and this, and why we do that is because this is the only way that we see that can solve the current global cybersecurity talent crunch.

Mark

Yeah.

Emil

So aspiring cybersecurity professionals no longer have to be troubled by their own training investment, wondering what's the right path to get into the cybersecurity industry. So far what's happening now is we are telling people that they need to spend close to 10,000 dollars to attend courses out there, and still, even after they complete the course, they might not even get a job at the end of the day.

Just a horrible advertisement for the industry.

Mark

It's tough.

Emil

And so you're, so you're saying people come in they don't pay for training, you train them, you give them a stipend, it sounds like, and then you find them a job.

Emil

Yeah.

Mark

People must be climbing over each other to join your program! You might ... how many, you know, per cohort, how many applicants do you guys usually get?

Emil

Per cohort, so we run about three to four cohorts a year.

Last year, so we had, last year, we were just starting out so we only tried out our first cohort and it works. It's just amazing!

Mark

Yeah.

Emil

So this year we have started our first school in January and we are aiming to have at least three to four cohorts a year, so our next cohort is actually coming in two weeks' time. So each cohort we have an average of about 1,500 applicants.

Mark

1,500?

Emil

Yeah.

Mark

How many make it to that final cut?

Emil

Eventually, we accepted per cohort around 12.

Mark

12 out of 1,500?!

Emil

Yeah.

Mark

Elite. That's elite.

Emil

Yeah.

Mark

You guys must have a pick of the litter there. That's fantastic!

Emil

Yeah, so actually for us is we didn't purposely make it exclusive. For us it's transparent, it's actually quite a transparent selection process that we look at the high aptitude of the trainees. It's for various different reasons. Mainly because we only have four months to train and within four months, we need to get them from no IT background. Some came in with like none. We need to get them from there to, four months later, that the companies go like we really want that guy in my team.

Mark

Yeah.

Emil

So for four months, it's for our training, it's really intense. You can ask any of my trainees. They're having the time of their life now being in the industry because they're a little bit more relaxed, just think about that.

Mark

I can imagine, I can imagine. That's a crazy boot camp!

Emil

Yeah, so in order to survive that, we need people who, if that they can handle the being bombarded with information every single minute and able to produce what they have learned yesterday or what they have learned five minutes ago to apply like now.

Mark

Yeah, they, there's a lot of information to soak up so you need the best sponges

Emil

Yes.

Mark

is what you're saying. So how about, so afterward they go through this program, then they get placed, what's your, what does your placement record, look like so far?

I mean I know you've only had, you're only in the middle of your second cohort, but what about the last one? How well did you guys do on placement?

Emil

So our last cohort we have 11 trainees. All of them are placed and

Mark

100 percent!

Emil

100 percent, yeah.

Mark

Wow!

Emil

Each and every one of them are getting, or they got at least two to three offers.

Mark

Fantastic!

Emil

It was tough. It was tough because, yeah it's a happy, it's a happy difficulty, right?

Mark

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a problem you wanna have.

Emil

Yeah, so it's tough when I need to reject some of our partners and tell them like sorry,

Mark

Maybe next time.

Emil

Yeah, next time which we are producing more and more now,

Mark

That's great!

Emil

and just, actually, just yesterday, we have partners coming in to check out and have a chat with our second cohort who are still going through the training and the company had already identified four to five people they potentially wanted. that they were like, we want these people. They're really good, we'll talk to them again.

When can I get them now?

Mark

Well, you must be doing something right. You must be doing something right.

Yeah, so we're coming at the top of our clock here, so maybe, you know, I'll give it back to you. Maybe just if you know, if anyone who's listening to this had one thing to take away, what would you like to leave them with?

598

00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,720

[Emil]: Ooh, that's a toughie. I think that the one thing at the end is, I don't know how to place ... I'm at a loss of words I'm trying to put in.

I think at end of the day it's really continue on to grow the hacker in each and every one of them, each and every one of you. That learning is not just about books and papers. It's about diving deep into your creativity, diving, try to understand, be curious all the time, and learning is not about going through chapters. Learning at the end of the day it is all about applications, how we can bring benefits to people around you.

Mark

Oh, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. I would have just said, hey, everybody check out Red Alpha, but that was much deeper, much deeper. I love it! There you have it, folks. We had ... Thanks, Emil for your time. I really appreciate it and for everyone out there, check out Red Alpha. Check out Horangi as always, and we'll see you guys next time.

Emil

Yes. Thanks, Mark.

Mark Anthony Fuentes

Mark Fuentes has over a decade of experience in the cyber security field highlighted by roles in organizations such as Verizon, The International Monetary Fund, and The United States Department of Homeland Security. Mark is an avid consumer of technology trends and threat intelligence and seeks out new applications of tech and research to combat cyber crime.

Subscribe to the Horangi Newsletter.

Be the first to hear about Horangi's upcoming webinars and events, up-and-coming cyber threats, new solutions, and the future of cybersecurity from our tech experts.